In this episode, Debi talks to Brian, a young man who has had experiences with megachurches and a celebrity pastor- he had a conversion experience and seemed to be doing everything right, and then the wheels fall off. After listening to this interview, Debi discusses Brian's situation (and those many who have similar stories) with the Reverend Bob Hiller of 1517's own the "Craft of Preaching" and "You Are Forgiven."