In the first Outside Ourselves episode, Kelsi chats with author, David Zahl, about his newest book, Low Anthropology (The Unlikely Key to a Gracious View of Others and Yourself). David is the founder and director of Mockingbird Ministries. David talks about why he wrote Low Anthropology, and why he thinks a pessimistic view of human nature can actually bring with it good and hopeful news. Kelsi and David also discuss the various ways we see low anthropology play out in culture, television and literature, and everyday life.